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Stu Baxel

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PostSubject: Norfolk arena statement   Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:30 pm

I have just read the statement from Norfolk Arena regarding F1s not turning up, OK he may have a fair point , but I think he should have covnsidered a few facts before he named the no show drivers, and labelled them unreliable, did he not know that 51 has been stood down due to his Stoke incident, and another named driver did actually report that he could not make it, I have always liked KL and think it is probably the best shale circuit on the F1 scene, but I do not believe that an outburst like this has done them any favours, unfortunately I could not make it last night, but I seldom miss an event there, just wondering what the drivers thought of the statement, pretty unfair in my oplnion, and given that the drivers are a pretty close knit bunch, I fear for the next KL turnout.
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:46 am

What a shame  No  I personally lay the blame whith both the promotors/BSCDA. I have said it before and will say it once more..........there should be ONE central booking contact at the BSCDA (no wrong numbers/confusion and they will be in full knowlege of driver "stand downs"). The BSCDA should present a list of drivers wishing to race 1 week prior to the event and inform the relevent promotion of any cancellations during the upcoming days to the event......this process would also allow the BSCDA to guage the general feeling among drivers regards attitudes to certain promotions and also the way car specs'/cost are influencing their racing habits. This would allow the promotor to get on with doing some promoting also!
Having said this before and Mr Reese saying that it had been proposed in the past, he said "SOME promotions want to keep bookings under their own control". No promotions named and NO reason given, WHY?
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tim1203

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:27 am

Promotions take the s****y end of the stick for most things but in this case the promotion has every right to be unhappy.
Look at it this way -

Format - how is a promoter going to plan the meeting if he has no idea of how many cars are going to turn up? 2/3 - 2 heats & consi - all in - other formula's format has also to be planned and not fitted around F1's.
Programme - Does the promoter just have 4 empty pages in the programme under the heading " fill in depending on who turns up" ?
Advertising - the promoter needs to know who is turning up if he is to advertise the meeting.
Financial - every ten cars ( F1's ) cost the promoter £400 ( start money ), he has a right to be able to plan the finances for the meeting in advance, not have pot luck on a Sat night. Also prize money - 3 heats / 2 heats - all dictate the allocation of prize money.
Us, the fans - we demand booking lists, a smoothly run meeting, as many races as poss ( F1's ), time for repairs but no drawn out meetings, etc, etc, And we're saying a promoter can do this without knowing how many cars are going to turn up ???

Similar to F2 drivers deciding to race without any green flag/light, booking in is a simple discipline that
F1s seem to be poor at and remember the drivers may be amateurs but the promoter is doing this for his living - a professional - and no business can run effectively without knowing what they're dealing with.

It seems to me like the stock car driver who was in court for shooting someone, the F1 fans said it was the victims fault for being in the way of a speeding bullet, drivers have the their faults like anyone else and sometimes it IS their fault, so good on Kings Lynn for being up front about this, it might help solve the problem long term.
And imagine 10 F1 drivers not getting a booking at Cov because there were 80 F2's booked in only to find only 60 F2's turn up !!!!!  affraid  F1 blinkers again.  Sad 
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Zep

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:55 pm

All reasonable comments.
There is a reason why Steve Rees and Jeremy Heaver have had it bad over the last few years from the so called fans.
It's because they dare to answer their critics. They have tried to be honest and the cynics have all but accused them of being liars, thieves and almost as bad as politicians.
None of the other promoters ever stick their nose out of the tent, even on warm days, as a consequence they never enter into a "tête-à-tête" with fans about car numbers, state of the pits, cancellations etc etc.
They live the life of Reilly in comparison.

I'd just like offer a warm and cordial welcome to Paul Butler to the honest world of the lunatic asylum.
Maybe he was wrong about Dylan 51, we all knew about that but then the BSCDA should have alerted him of that.
Put that down to the usual rubbish communication between the BSCDA, BriSCA and anyone else who matters. It's the achilles heel of this sport.
The Holcroft - Wainman thing must have been known about well before the meeting, as for the others, who knows? But so what?

The outburst was between Paul Butler & the drivers yet it's the fans who are waving their arms about over it.

Will Kings Lynn get the Sheffield titty lip treatment from the drivers & a particular section of fans I wonder?
What will the excuses be? Too many infield tyres? Too slick? Promoter is like a little Hitler?

Have a nice day/night (delete as appropriate)
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:04 pm

Now you come to mention it Zep..........."A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen."
Winston Churchill
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Zep

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:27 pm

Yes indeed, a silken tongue and plenty of bullpooh to cover his/her tracks.
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Fri May 23, 2014 11:44 pm

It appears that Kings Lynn are keeping up the tough tactics........... taken from their website.......
"Drivers are reminded that if they turn up to race without being booked in they will not receive their complimentary admissions and will also not receive points."
also.......
"Any driver booked in to race and does not race and does not cancel thier booking will have to pay a fine before they are allowed to race again."
Not sure about the not receiving points bit myself, or for that matter, how much said fine is and who it is payable to?
Anyway lets hope it works out how they want it to.
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Stu Baxel

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 12:05 am

I have my own thoughts about this statement, as I suspect a few of us do, but shall keep them to myself, I have been a regular at KL for many years, but as said previously , I fear that they (or the promoter) are alianating the F1 drivers / fans ,thats enough said from me on this subject, as no doubt we all have our own opinions, just think it is a bloomin shame we are back to the promoter vs driver situation ! on the plus side I have saved myself £40.00 or so, ( fuel, admission, & flaming grill burger) lol



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tim1203

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Good on Kings Lynn, its a basic discipline for drivers, takes very little time and just good manners, just because they drive a F1 dosnt mean they are any different from driving any other formula.
When will F1's realise they are no longer "the premier" oval racing formula.
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 3:52 pm

Bang on Tim. 
If a driver books himself in during the week, but for whatever reason has to cancel, then do just that, cancel.
Its not difficult, and nor is it brain surgery.
...................

Phantom booking lists is also another thing that needs addressing. 
Promotors can, and will advertise a booking list in the days before the meeting to entice you in, then sure as night follows day, a 1/4 of them are not there, someones taking the piss out of us, and lets get to the bottom of it!.. 

Would like to here the drivers view on booking lists, as i here rumours that they dont book in in the first place and promotors are just using them to take the flak.
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steven



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 4:17 pm

Easy answer - don't publish any just like it used to be.  Far too much information these days. As usual, provocative comment/ theory heard with waxed ears to start even more online rubbish, dear oh dear. Enjoy a night at King's Lynn or Belle Vue rather than analysis it! No one 'invents' a booking list.
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 8:07 pm

Look.  On this one im right behind Kings Lynn, 'IF'  it's the drivers? then they need sorting out.
The bit you dont seem to grasp Steven is that a lot of fans feel conned when they arrive. I went to all the Buxton meetings last year, it was either 2 or 3 times?, anyhow, 22-23 cars on each occasion  and it aint worth going to and decided to not bother with Buxton this time; however! upon seeing it advertised as 32 cars,  and hello!  thats more like it.
Imagine upon arrival discovering its infact 23 cars, 4 all in races. And a repeat of last year, which you said you werent going to do. 
That feeling of having your pants pulled down overwhelms you/me. 
If i drove 100+ miles to watch Manchester United and the programme listed the team as X,X, and X big names and it was half the youth team, id want m y money back, as i came to see X,X and X AThat S ADVERTISED .  32 cars NOT 22. Or the job im doing next laying 32 concrete flags at my mates house after he's 
took his lawn up, he's paying me to lay 32 flags imagine the look on his face when i only lay 22 and go "ah well!" somehow i dont think hes gonna accept that, and ask for a 1/3rd of his money back.
Do away with booking lists for the benfit of everyone.

Just out of intrest, do you base your booking lists on who booked in the previous meeting a month before?. and not this one. Cos if so the booking list should say "drivers booked in for Sunday/monday who raced at thr previous meeting a month ago, and god only knows if there here today?".
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steven



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 8:54 pm

actually no!
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 9:05 pm

well stop being evasive, and tell us how it works?.
does a driver actualy contact a promoter, at some point after the previous meeting to say he's coming and not just assumed he's coming. Then cant be botherd cancelling?.  
please could you also quash another rumour for me please Steven.
Do drivers book in for one meeting at a time (the next meeting) or do they get some sort of block booking scenario.

Cheers.
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nikeastwood

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 9:16 pm

be much better for a promoter to just advertise how many cars there are, ie, 35 x brisca f1, 30 ministox etc etc

"behind the scenes" they know who has booked in, and who doesnt turn up, then nobody has to go down the dirty name and shame route, fans should be going to see "stockcar racing" and not "a stockcar driver"
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J4LMP

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 9:27 pm

steven wrote:
Easy answer - don't publish any just like it used to be.  Far too much information these days. As usual, provocative comment/ theory heard with waxed ears to start even more online rubbish, dear oh dear. Enjoy a night at King's Lynn or Belle Vue rather than analysis it! No one 'invents' a booking list.


Well I personally wish you and all the other promoters would do with them.But especially Startrax, as they seem to be the most misleading lists, with the highest percentage of "no shows" compared with other promotions...

Yes I fully agree with Sausages point that it is upto the drivers to cancel if after they have booked in them suddenly can't honor the meeting for whatever reason ! And yes, sometimes this is done after the print deadline of meeting programmes but..........

But often some drivers aren't even aware that their on a booking list, when I've asked how this can be, the answer has been block bookings scratch scratch scratch scratch scratch  sorry but I don't go with that...

Very often we have names of lists that we all know aren't racing! examples being... The first 3 F1 Startrax meetings all had 217 L Fairhurst down as racing, everyone knew he wasn't due to no shale engine ready, it was all over both Facebook,Twitter and other internet forums, all of which Startrax use regularly. Then we have the 51 Dylan story re King Lynn, he was injured at a Startrax meeting (Stoke) again the results and info of this was very well known but yet his name was still on the booking list for Sheffield a week later, he was never going to race...Misleading....

As for Stoke meeting, the list advertised with 51 names on it, of then 51, 36 raced, 36 affraid affraid affraid  another 4 turned up on the day to make a very reasonable turnout! That is a huge number of no shows, which begs the question, how many were actually going to race and booked in?????

Your always going to get drivers not racing after booking in but the number at some meetings is so high you wonder what the hell is going on!  

This weekend we have Belle Vue, 40 cars on the list? there will be a few that get too much damage tonight at Lynn and may cancel, but I can't help wonder just how many will race? 36?37? a reasonable guess but can't help thinking no more than 30?... I'll go with 29!


So as you say, "DO AWAY WITH BOOKINGS LISTS"  go old skool, just turn up and enjoy/support, no matter who does or doesn't turn up.........


Last edited by J4LMP on Sat May 24, 2014 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 9:39 pm

agreed Rapid Yellow. Do away with them.
I wasn't going to buxton, as my own personal cut off point is 2/3rds format and i wont go to 22 car all in's essentialy  the same race repeated 4 times.
So to turn up and find out it was the latter, something i wont have done if i wasnt led to belive it was the former.
If 'all in's'  are where were at in 2014, then so be it, it is what it is, and i dont go simple as that, no hard feelings, and stockcars im sure wont miss me.

Dont do a booking list, i might fancy it the day before and yep have a slice.  if it turns out to be all in, i've no-one to blame as i wasnt promised anything otherwise.

Oh, and before you go all Beaks on me, its not the admission price, thats fine. Even if you dont mind all in's.
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Beefy

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 9:57 pm

Maybe there should be a centralised booking in system? Run by the BSCDA? After all they have control of the drivers and that would stop promoters being blamed/accused of the inaccuracies?

Even if promoters did away with publishing booking lists. I'm sure there would be chinese whisper based lists on the likes of facebook, twitter etc and they could be even more misleading?

_________________
Life is about kicking ass not kissing it!
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J4LMP

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 10:03 pm

[quote="Beefy"]Maybe there should be a centralised booking in system? Run by the BSCDA? After all they have control of the drivers and that would stop promoters being blamed/accused of the inaccuracies?

Even if promoters did away with publishing booking lists. I'm sure there would be chinese whisper based lists on the likes of facebook, twitter etc and they could be even more misleading?[/quote





GREAT IDEA LES....
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 10:17 pm

seconded.
So simple, yet genius.  Idea
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tim1203

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 10:18 pm

Is this another issue just with F1's ??? do other formula have the same problem with innacurrate booking lists???
The more I chat with people from all corners of the stock car world the more I get the impression F1's are a law unto themselves and at times as much trouble as they're worth.
If F1's promote themselves as the premier oval formula then F1's need to start acting as such and be far more "proffesional" in thier overall presentation, accepting the rest of the world isnt there just revolve around them. This includes drivers and fans and promotions .
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Graham

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sat May 24, 2014 11:03 pm

Grafter wrote:
It appears that Kings Lynn are keeping up the tough tactics........... taken from their website.......
"Drivers are reminded that if they turn up to race without being booked in they will not receive their complimentary admissions and will also not receive points."
also.......
"Any driver booked in to race and does not race and does not cancel thier booking will have to pay a fine before they are allowed to race again."
Not sure about the not receiving points bit myself, or for that matter, how much said fine is and who it is payable to?
Anyway lets hope it works out how they want it to.

I don't see how drivers who turn up on Spec can be denied points scored, unless they mean for domestic tables. They surely can't be denied other points.
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Spannerman

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sun May 25, 2014 8:40 am

That's how i read it,denied track championship points
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steven



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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sun May 25, 2014 10:29 am

I don't believe any track invents bookings and don't accept ours are any different - Steph takes most of ours so they are drivers who have contacted her - some drivers may be on a permanent list and occasionally forget to cancel although we have done away with that.

Some bookings come in via Guy who chases them up for most tracks - and there is some degree of co-operation as we have experimented in drivers booking in for shale tracks at Coventry with Dave R.

Some cancel late which does not make updates as with workload it is sometimes not possible. Sometimes, as now, odd drivers get missed, Steph had missed an e-mail re 197 who has not been updated on our own website list.

Meetings [ like ours ] which are second in a weekend suffer most - but agree to a degree having looked over lists that there are shortfalls - last week Brum was pretty accurate at 22 Buxton had 31 v 24 racing - Stoke did have a drop off of several, Sheffield had a drop off of 5 - all due to damage at Coventry the preceding Sat [ although 51 was already off the list! ] - Skegness had a drop off also. I suspect we will lose 3/4 - for example 2 broke down en route to Buxton, some won't know until tomorrow extend of any damage etc for K/L however confidently expect 32+ which again would be up on 2013..........

However, by enlarge for a 'hobby' formula the majority of attendances in 2014 have been good, particularly shale and as far as Startrax is concerned either slightly up or slightly down - overall on par.

Lists are put up in good faith, many systems have been tried including penalising drivers but generally are what they are. Other formulae suffer the same - BriSCA F2 in particular - take Bangers, 9 were booked in for Stoke last week - 22 raced. 12 were booked in for last BV 24 raced.

The list below is an amalgam of those who have booked in via Steph or Guy, some I have e-mailed myself - short of ringing every driver today or in the morning to double check they are still coming, haven't had some issue that prevents them, they are in good faith expected. There are a minority of drivers who either book in and fail to show - or don't book in and turn up and now we hand those over to BSCDA to investigate. But chill, this is supposed to be fun.  

In the days of Nelson where 39 cars still meant 3 heats we never got booking lists

FORMULA TWOS
13 Andy Ford
19 Martin Ford
70 Brian Shadbolt
136 Kyle Taylor
139 Brian Mason
158 William Clement
177 Glenn Scott
178 Mark Dews
184 Aaron Vaight
205 Chris Brennan
218 Rob Speak
219 Chris Mitchell
252 Rick Irving
298 Jake Walker
348 Lee Johnson
364 Rob Plant
377 Daz Shaw
381 josh Caine
398 Matthew Sayer
401 Barry Goldin
417 Allan Weston
471 Malcom Kaye
548 Martin Lowe
606 Andrew Palmer
615 josh Colemen
634 Paul Kitching
671 Linclon Newby
710 Brett Townsend
728 Carl Pilkington
757 Martin Chadwick
758 Tommy Hollingworth
788 Steve Mallinson
834 Paul Towers
867 Darren Cooper
887 Neil Brigg
905 Rob Mitchell
942 Gareth Hamer
969 Bart Smeet
977 Dave Massey
987 Sam Brigg
995 Michael lund
997 Oliver Ives

FORMULA ONES

1 Tom Harris
4 Dan Johnson
16 Matt Newson
22 Will Yarrow
34 Mal Brown
45 Nigel Harrhy
53 John Lund
54 Hayley Parkinson [p]
55 Craig Finnikin
91 Tony Smith
94 John dowson
135 James Bailey
150 Mick Sworder
169 Billy Johnson
183 Steve Whittle
191 Josh Smith
207 Ben Hurdman
212 Danny Wainman
215 Geoff Nicholls
220 Will Hunter
238 Richard Bryan
249 Joff Gibson
259 Paul Hines
276 Mark Poole
280 Colin Nairn
293 Eliot Smith
313 Karl Roberts
318 Rob Speak
321 Ed Neachell
330 Graham Wagstaff
335 Mark Woodhull
337 Dave Willis
390 Stuart Smith
424 Michael Heywood
444 Paul Jay -Lemons
462 Scott Davids
463 James Morris
511 Jake Hall *
515 Frankie Wainman Jnr

MINISTOX
2 Ben chambers
10 Chloe jukes
13 Emma ford
21 Liam Gilbank
53 Roger Stansfield
58 jack bullock
69 Matt Barnard
127 Austin Moore
134 Sophie Maynard
152 Charlie Sworder
153 Georgina bullock
154 Declan Gwin
158 Abigail Stansfield
180 Courtney Witts
183 Charlie guinchard
198 James benson
202 will knight
226 Amy Webster
242 joe Nickolls
269 Ben chalkley
272 Jessica Tidd
323 Harry Peall
331 Mackenzie whitehead
391 Jessica smith
411 Ryan Fairburn
434 Mia Pritchard
515 Jnr Wainman
598 Lewis Taylor
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J4LMP

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PostSubject: Re: Norfolk arena statement   Sun May 25, 2014 11:06 am

Thanks for the reply Steve....

All I'll say on the matter is this, all venues will have driver's not attending after booking in, nearly always due to car problems and running out of time or money or both to get cars ready...

All I know is that Startrax lists, whoever sorts them, have the highest percentage of no shows than any other! !! WHY? At the end of the day the proof will be in the pudding, 39 F1's on that list above, I truly hope you get that many, the rain stays away and it's a great meeting for all invloved!!!!!


Thanks

Lee
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