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 POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.

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Brisca F1's on Tar, is it over?. YES/NO
YES.... somethings seriously wrong cos it's absolute pants as a spectacle.
59%
 59% [ 17 ]
NO.... I think it's O.K. and enjoy my Tar racing.
41%
 41% [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

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sausage



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PostSubject: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:52 am

As the title asks.. 
Reasons why it is or aint are welcome also.

* you need to cast a vote, to be able to see how the poll is going..*
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:20 pm

I'd  love to hear it from someone who drives an F1 on tar. cos all you can do is speculate.
Here is my speculation.
Is it the cars are now a combination if too heavy and so low, that to shift one out the way, you have to slam it that hard, you come to a standstill almost as a result? then a boy racer who dont do contact whistles past, throws you a thumbs up and 'see ya' race win. If you lose momentum just once, is that it? is the lap times that close.  
Like Dan Johnson in World finals, does he do the dirty work for someone else to profit, how long would it take to think 'aint doing that again' .
In the Northampton world, he shifted frankie (someone needed to do it), bent some rod on his own car and now injured couldnt take on Paul Harrison.. 'Cheers Dan!'..
Again, does the hit required now have to be that hard (grip) that you probably damage your own in the process?.
There was a video i watched of onboard footage last season camera facing back, where ironicly it was Dan again, and he walloped the car in front with the camera square on roaring down a tar straight, and the camerad car hardly moved, rattled the drivers teeth no doubt, whereas the driver behind nearly came out of his harnessed seat and his car front end twisted down and left then right.
Gain- sod all.     Damage- slight possible?.   Loss of momentum/ racing line into corner-  id imagine so, would have been better to just sail round top speed.
Driver behind Dan gained?- well he certainly didnt pull away from him while whacking the camerad car...
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robbo28

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PostSubject: Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:01 pm

Hmm - one bad meeting and its all doom and gloom!

Got to disagree, and put in a balanced view. I've seen absolutely mind-numbingly boring meetings on both surfaces, and awesome meets on both.

But just to highlight how good tar is, just recall the world qualifier at Birmingham last year. The final was a classic. Okay, 16 disappeared off into the sunset to win, but all hell broke loose for second place. 4, 197, 107, 217 and 84 were thumping each other on every bend, and the places changed constantly. And 191 and 462 were also having their own private battle. And 318 got buried.

The world as we know it is still there. Lets just get over one less than entertaining meeting
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:56 pm

'one bad meeting'   Robbo there's been a few mate. 
You mention a meeting a year ago, when's the next one gonna be?.
To me Robbo, and i speak just for myself -welcome yours and more opinions-  in my position of working 6 days a week, very little disposable income, other stuff that needs doing (time and money) i simply can't justify traveling round the country in the hope that this meeting is going to be the overdue good one.

Do you know what!.  I've just rememberd,  Laughing it wasnt that long ago we were on here saying that the hits in tarmac racing were just too big, car wreckers  affraid ...   we seem to have gone from massive explosive hits, to none now, how odd  scratch ..
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tim1203

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:15 pm

Its simple really, the cars are expensive, costly and time consuming to repair ( how many are waiting for engines to come back from USA ? ) and are no.longer stock cars as most of us remember.
They are too fast meaning any biggish hit is destructive and dangerous, look how much more action there is in Saloons because they are slower. Soon it will be Brisca F1 SPRINT car racing ans for me, if I want to see cars going fast I'd watch circuit racing or, as I do, watch bike racing - 200 mph on a bike is what I call fast not 60mph in an overweight sprint car.

And yes - as I don't like F1's as they are I've ****ed off and watched something else, so thanks for that advice, much more entertaining Smile
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Kane238

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:13 pm

I do like Tarmac this year but not at Birmingham, I've been to the WCQR and that was shocking, Skegness and Northampton have both been good meetings.
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robbo28

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PostSubject: Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:14 pm

That was just an example Sausage. I could cite others. But I've also been to a fair few shale meetings that have been less than memorable. This sort of debate has been going on for years. Not that long ago it was all the fault of the tyres. Then there was a resurgence in tar racing. There was a downturn in shale racing, which some claimed was due to the absence of barrels.

Like you Sauasage, and I suspect an awful lot of other folk, available time and finances mean that meeting numbers are restricted. And I think that this is the problem. If I go to a meeting, and its not all action, I feel as though my money was not well spent, and because I only get to around 18 or so meets a year, these sorts of things stand out. Years ago, when I had less commitments, I went to lots more meetings, an average of 80 a year (108 in one year), so there was always a chance of seeing a good one reasonably often. And then again, the equipment was less high-tech, and there were no booking lists or internet forums. Perhaps expectation was lower, and I only tend to remember the good meetings.

Its also worth bearing in mind that different people have a different perspective on what happens on track. I remember seeing one notable commentator/observer saying how brilliant a certain Coventry meeting was earlier this year. I was there, and struggled to keep awake. Complete yawnfest.

So in summary, one bad tarmac meeting (or indeed a few more than that) doesn't spell the end of the world - I'm sure that the same number of duff shele events wouldn't generate half as much feeling. Its just frustrating thats all.
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bm7921

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:08 pm

robbo28 wrote:
Hmm - one bad meeting and its all doom and gloom!

Got to disagree, and put in a balanced view. I've seen absolutely mind-numbingly boring meetings on both surfaces, and awesome meets on both.

But just to highlight how good tar is, just recall the world qualifier at Birmingham last year. The final was a classic. Okay, 16 disappeared off into the sunset to win, but all hell broke loose for second place. 4, 197, 107, 217 and 84 were thumping each other on every bend, and the places changed constantly. And 191 and 462 were also having their own private battle. And 318 got buried.

The world as we know it is still there. Lets just get over one less than entertaining meeting

not just one poor meeting. I think tar racing this year has been awful. And speaking to a few people last night I'm not the only one.
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nikeastwood

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:24 pm

I love tarmac F1 racing for the spectacle of noise, power and speed

I know there are some differences between weight bias on tar and shale cars and these need to be changed so that both are the same

tarmac cars have very well on shale for nearly everyone who has tried them, didnt fwj win cov world 98 in his rapid orange low line tar car?

but shale cars dont go so good on tar, imo
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J4LMP

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:29 pm

bm7921 wrote:
robbo28 wrote:
Hmm - one bad meeting and its all doom and gloom!

Got to disagree, and put in a balanced view. I've seen absolutely mind-numbingly boring meetings on both surfaces, and awesome meets on both.

But just to highlight how good tar is, just recall the world qualifier at Birmingham last year. The final was a classic. Okay, 16 disappeared off into the sunset to win, but all hell broke loose for second place. 4, 197, 107, 217 and 84 were thumping each other on every bend, and the places changed constantly. And 191 and 462 were also having their own private battle. And 318 got buried.

The world as we know it is still there. Lets just get over one less than entertaining meeting

not just one poor meeting. I think tar racing this year has been awful. And speaking to a few people last night I'm not the only one.


ditto Bryan! Can't remember many good tar meetings in the last few seasons, and too be fair, tired of talking about it!  Apart from a possible trip to Cowdie (been offered a lift, although the driver is in two minds after last night) I won't be attending another tarmac meeting this season!   Oh the shame, burn me at the stake for being negative and expressing an opinion that isn't positive and smelling of friggin roses! Too often I have set off to a tarmac meeting, hoping that this will be the one that re-ignites my interest, the one when something might actually happen, but more often than not, it's another let down and I wonder why I bothered. Decided not to go last night and I think after speaking to friends who went I was totally vindicated by my decision....

Now there seems to be a confusion when people describe tar meetings like I have, I usually get the response " what you want?" crashes, follow in's, drivers being fenced etc.. And the answer is "NO"to all then, and no I don't want a banger meeting but nor do I want a hot rod meeting!!!

Huge amounts of effort/time/money by drivers and teams go into getting cars onto track, many drivers and teams risk relationships, injury and financial  ruin to get out there and race for our entertainment and on that basis I do respect every single one of them and their teams for doing it.. But tarmac racing nowadays is just different, stand on the back straight at Skeggy under the lights and the speed and sounds of these machines is awesome.. It takes greats cuts and skill to drive them and to drive them as fast as they do nowadays....

But it's getting less and less entertaining by the week it seems..... Too much roundy roundy.. To be successful on tarmac comes from many hours in the garage, we often hear the words "races are won and lost in the garage"  if you want to be successful in this sport you need to have the time to do this, and if you have two cars, you can pretty much kiss goodbye to a life outside work and stockcars.. Most drivers I talk to whom have one one car, say dependent on damage they spend 2 nights on the car, sometimes 3.. If you have 2 cars then you can be in the garage every night! So, you do a fulltime job and then another full time job away from your family just to get the car ready! So by the time they get the car on track, many hours and many pounds no doubt have been spent just to get out there.. Total respect for that commitment, but you can understand if a driver decides to be more conservative in his racing style especially in heats etc "just qualify and get a good grid position"  then only go "gung ho" in the final, and only if its worth it... I'm sure some drivers look at the damage to their cars and think " ffs, another all nighter to get that fixed"...

The recent SSJ interview done by F1Stock cars website was a good read, less, off the shelf racing parts,but more drivers having to rely more on their driving talent and fabrication skills than bank balances.... To be fast on tarmac apart from the obvious, good equipment, good set up and driving ability also requires super fast and super smooth laps, which at times results in lesser contact...

Spoke with a good red top last season at the Vue, he chatted about a race at brum he was in, he said, him and another driver exchanged a few hits on each other, knocking each other off line and retaking each others places, this went on and suddenly the chequered flag appeared and they finished just inside of the top ten, just!!!! He said if you want to win, or be in within a chance of winning, you can't get involved in duels like that, it just slows you down, and add to the fact that even the whites and yellows have good equipment  these days, so to win  you need to "be on it" from the off, no hanging around...

This leads to less entertaining races and as the car numbers drop off, and the more spread out the cars get during a race, you have 15 or 16 all going round very very fast but not doing much! BORING!  

Hopefully as the new tyres and new shock rules kick in, numbers will increase???, I was hoping the likes of 34 Mal Brown did well last night to encourage more drivers who only race shale car to give tarmac a go, we may have to give it more time.... But for the meantime I'm going to give it a miss....... Tarmac's loss will hopefully be shale tracks gain!
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:38 am

Tarmac.............ermmmmm. It used to be said of stockcars in general "too many cars on too smaller track", now it seems that the F1's have outgrown these tracks and need more space to go faster. Slow em' down a tiny bit and make them a bit more like this.......narrower tyres/no power steering/same rear weight on both tar and shale/same size/width/offset wheels (no swapping tyes onto different rims for a change in surface) ect...
Got to say the difference between the interview Beaks did with Mr Speak (how many times did he say "thats a difficult one.....I don't know the answer") and the refreshing views of SSJ in the F1stockcars interview (never had much time for him before but he seems to have matured a lot and is now smelling the coffee)........wish I had gone to Coventry instead now..........sorry Steve.
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craig52

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:15 am

Weights, total, inside and rear are the same for all cars, tarmac or shale. it's not that.
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kevin@racewall.net



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:51 pm

I reckon the Lochgelly meeting will be brilliant to watch in F1s.

I only ever see them at Skegness Speedweekend..So can't comment on the general question.

Lochgelly has 2 different corners - one tighter than the other, and the racing line is tight to the inside of the track in the corners, with lots of space out wide to make a push/hit, and not actually hit the wall.

A few videos on the hrp youtube page of various formula, if you want to see the sort of track shape/racing line.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HardieRacePromotions

I think it'll allow for lively, but not destructive racing.

Really looking forward to the F1s up here again, at both Racewall and Lochgelly.

PS - You can see the vote results without voting, if you aren't logged in
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:22 am

craig52 wrote:
Weights, total, inside and rear are the same for all cars, tarmac or shale. it's not that.

What is the current wording of the rear weight rule? I think used to be minimum 56% rear. That means you can run a higher rear percentage (this was done on shale at around 58% +) to gain a bit more traction on the loose). So maybe this rule (if its still the same needs tightening up).....lets say 56.5% + or - 0.5%.
What are the technical committee's aims at the minute....it all seems a bit quiet from a spectators point of view?
Hopefully they are looking at my idea of a double layer nerf bar with a crumple zone built in.......this would reduce the number of side swipes and encourage more front to rear shots at the same time as giving a safer side impact in a crash.
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Carl H

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:04 am

Same as what J4 said.... the 2012 WF race stands alone as the one single good race I've seen on tarmac in the last couple of years. I really couldn't find the enthusiasm for the British so I just didn't bother, and it sounds like it was even worse than I was expecting it to be.

On the plus side, it seems like shale is starting to improve. I've been to some decent meetings so far, and based on what was posted about the last Cov, I'm thinking of giving it another try later in the year.

Onwards and upwards!  cheers 
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beermonster

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:57 am

I enjoy my tar racing. Take Saturday for instance, it wasn't a crash fest, but it had good racing. Ask Paul Harrison and Paul Ford! it depends on what you want/expect. If you have action/damage, then you get reduced grids. Buggered if you do/ buggered if you don't.
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Carl H

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:49 am

Can you imagine going to a restaurant, saying you didn't like the food, and being told that the food was fine but you were eating it wrong?
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:39 pm

Carl H wrote:
Can you imagine going to a restaurant, saying you didn't like the food, and being told that the food was fine but you were eating it wrong?

....  Suspect .....
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Kane238

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:38 pm

If any of you went to Northampton today (22nd) I'm sure if you voted YES, would like to change it to a NO. It was brilliant, I would say a 10/10 meeting. Every formula was action packed and some great driving by Dan Squire in the 252 Heritage car.
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J4LMP

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:35 am

Kane238 wrote:
If any of you went to Northampton today (22nd) I'm sure if you voted YES, would like to change it to a NO. It was brilliant, I would say a 10/10 meeting. Every formula was action packed and some great driving by Dan Squire in the 252 Heritage car.



Looks like from all the reviews that NIR yesterday was a awesome classic meeting!!! Plenty of aggro, good aggressive drivibg, bumpers going in....let's hope it continues! !! But lets not get carried away, no matter what the surfaces is, law of averages would suggest that eventually there would be a good tarmac meeting  cheers 


So, as I say, , let's hope it isn't a flash in the pan and the entertainment continues into next week and beyond! !!!

I hold off re booking by Euro's hotel just for now  geek 
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A1 NOS

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 am

Kane238 wrote:
If any of you went to Northampton today (22nd) I'm sure if you voted YES, would like to change it to a NO. It was brilliant, I would say a 10/10 meeting. Every formula was action packed and some great driving by Dan Squire in the 252 Heritage car.

One sunny day doesn't make a great summer.

In some respects I'm gutted I missed it. In other respects I enjoyed what I was doing.
I really do hope it continues. Hope everybody who heads to Scotland has a great time and the drivers perform.

Seems no reason why the Euros shouldn't therefore be fantastic.

Maybe a load of the drivers having been reading this and decided to use the bumpers in the hope of some entertainment.

What say all eyes on 150 the next time he's near 462.

This is what fans want. Talking points. A bit of needle. Keeps it interesting.
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:29 pm

Here-here A1nos...
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Carl H

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PostSubject: Re: POLL.... Brisca F1 and Tarmac racing hunky-dorey?.   Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:39 pm

Just to add to what A1 and J4 said... that meeting might have got rave reviews, but it seems to me that a lot of the people posting them are the ones that either rate every meeting highly regardless of what happens, or they never usually post a rating.

Not saying that they are wrong, but for me anyway, some people's opinions carry a lot more weight than others. That said, those people whose opinion that I value and respect have also said that it was good, so it seems like I missed a cracker.

But.... and this is a pretty big but.... when was the last time that a tarmac meeting was talked about like that? Certainly wasn't this year. J4 mentioned the laws of averages... the chances of a good tar meeting are still definitely a lot less than 1 in 10.

I know it probably sounds like I'm being negative. I prefer to think that I'm realistic. Never mind when was the last time, how about when will be the next time? Is this what we can expect on tar from now on? If so, count me in.

Instead of getting bogged down with statistics and lamenting the past, how about answering this - what was it that made that NIR meeting so good?

Drivers getting a bit of sunstroke?
The heat warming up the tyres, shockers, and brakes a bit much so they weren't as effective?
Had the drivers got a bit fed up of the moaning about them being boring and decided to liven it up a bit?
Had someone told the drivers to liven it up a bit?
Or was it just a flash in the pan?

And more importantly, what can be done to make more meetings turn out like that?
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