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 Change the rules

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A1 NOS

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PostSubject: Change the rules   Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:09 pm

Does anyone think if cars are taken out before the majority of the field cross the start line the race should be restarted.

It just ain't fare for drivers who've qualified for, in some cases Championship races to loose out even before the race gets underway.

Last years WF, Sworder taken out before the start line and last weeks BDC, 515 and 390 taken out.

We need to at least give the drivers and fans te best possible chance of a decent race and I don't think loosing drivers before the first corner is going to help.

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garfield

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:21 pm

Hmmmm 2 of you favourites mentioned there, any sour grapes at all?  scratch 

To answer the question though no, once the green flags dropped the race has started, there would be a difference if the green hasn't been shown
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sausage



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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:23 pm

Or 515 a few years ago in the Belle Vue shootout finale by 4. And Fwj wasn't too H.P..

If they suffer damage, do we wait for them to fix it before starting again?.   If you threaten drivers with disqualification were they to do it on purpose (decision by race control) then it should tidy things up a bit A1..
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beermonster

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:49 am

I do think that there should be a restart. And with the current obsession with driver numbers they should be allowed to repair any damage. after all it's what we all pay our money for!
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Carl H

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:41 am

Championship races should be run to the same rules as every other race. It should only be a restart if there's yellow flags.

What if someone on row 4 crashes out before the start line?

What if they had restarted the British, and 515 or 390 had won?

Who would decide whether or not to restart the race, and based on what?

I know where you're coming from with this A1, but I think it this was to happen then it wouldn't take many races being restarted cos someone crashed out before F1 is reduced to being a laughing stock the way F2 was a few years back with well-intentioned but badly implemented and ultimately ludicrous rules.
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A1 NOS

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:36 am

I don't have any favourites now. Maybe that's the problem.
I go racing now to be entertained and not to see one particular driver win or do well.
The Tarmac scene is struggling.
Noticed a superstar putting the bumper into a yellow top last week. Same Superstar that shadowed Rob Speak round earlier in the year. Maybe that's part of the problem. Totally selective bumper work.
I mean I totally commend the amount of money J. Davidson puts into the sport but he's spending sod all on rear bumpers on the 318 car.*


* but probably a small fortune on front bumpers.
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Dave Wayne

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:02 pm

beermonster wrote:
I do think that there should be a restart. And with the current obsession with driver numbers they should be allowed to repair any damage. after all it's what we all pay our money for!

But then everybody would be complaining about the meetings dragging on too long.  Wink 

There isn't a start line in stock car racing. As soon as the green flag drops, everyone is racing. It is a hard enough job for the stewards to police the racing as it is, so bringing in a rule like this which is very 'objective' just leads to ill feeling when people see different decisions being made for different incidents.
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bm7921

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:17 pm

The start of the race is when the green flag drops. This is official.

Last yr nige pulled into the centre green at birmingham just as green flag dropped as he had problem with car. He did not cross the finish line. I went to race control to see if he could go in the next heat ( yez 2 separate heats at a none championship meeting, remember them !). I was told by meeting steward that as he was moving when green flag dropped he was classed as starting that race .

So that to me is confirmation that the race starts when the green flag drops and not at finish line so if you get took out tough.
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Spannerman

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:00 pm

Thought the new rule was the starter dropped the green when row 1 exits turn 4 ?
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BobtheBuilder



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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:48 am

As a fan who grew up watching stock car racing in the seventies (before yellow flags) and the eighties (when yellow flags were used sparingly), I do find it ridiculous that yellow flags are sometimes brought out before half the cars have passed the starter.  The marshalls take forever before the green flag making sure that the gaps are correct between the grades and then before half the field reach turn 3 they're all expected to line up in single file.

I presume that the speed of the cars is now why we have so many cautions during races.  To me yellow flags (and having 2 different cars for shale & tarmac) have been the downfall of what I used to call stock car racing.

I still cringe when the yellow flags are waved simply because someone has spun or someone is parked up against the fence.  I don't know whether it's a health and safety issue, promoter's are worries about insurance claims or whether todays drivers are more worried about denting their cars?

I do understand a driver's safety is of paramount importance.  If there is an incident, to be fair some tracks do give them a chance to recover before the yellows are shown but then you get places like Northampton (sorry Brafield...NIR...Pr1mo) who get the yellow flags out at the drop of a hat.  How many times does the race come under a caution only for the driver to race off under his own power?

I know Mildenhall don't run F1's, but when the F2's & National Saloons race there, if there is an incident within the first 5 laps, they bring out the red flags and line the cars up again in graded order and restart the race from scratch.  In my opinion the way it should be.
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Grafter



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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:52 am

There always has been and always will be conjecture over starts/yellow flags/race stoppages (just like there is in football regarding fouls/offsides ect), this is down to the human element. Sometimes a waved yellow coming out or a race stoppage leads to other racing incidents (not all drivers slow/stop as quickly as others) and drivers having to retire from the race as a result.
What would certainly improve both SAFETY and fairness would be the introduction of more/better traffic lights at regular intervals around the track and the REMOVAL of the FLAGS for starts.
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bm7921

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:26 pm

The difference is with Incarace , they allow any marshalls around the track to say a yellow flag is required. This is completely different to every other track amd also contravenes the rule book (or it did when I last read the rule book .

Rule book (did) state(s) , during a race if a driver requests a stoppage ie by thumbs down or they cannot react to the marshall (if unconscious for example) the marshall requests a stoppage by raising yellow flag over his head. The clerk of course who is usually in the middle will confirm if race stoppage is justified . He will then radio to race steward who is in race control who ultimately decided if cautio is required. The process is in place so there is more than 1 viewpoint to ensure a stoppage is required.
Obviously the steward can go to cauition without the request of the clerk of course kf he sees something which obviously requires a caution ie roll over etc

also do bear In mind there are a few (known) drivers who will go thumbs down for everytime something happens to them but then drive off when race has been stopped. If im correct there is a rule which states that if you do this you could be loaded up.

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Dave Wayne

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:39 pm

I thought all the marshals at incarace tracks were in radio contact with mics and headphones and they request yellows in this way rather than the flag above the head. I would say this is much quicker and safer than relying on somebody spotting a raised flag which sometimes takes several laps at some tracks. Maybe incarace are actually ahead of the game ?
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bm7921

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PostSubject: Re: Change the rules   Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:22 pm

But sometimes the incarace marshalls can request a waved yellow too early. How many times have you seen it that a waved yellow is requested by the incarace marshall (and not a thumbs down situation) only for the incident to clear itself. When I worked at Coventry , in the middle, I was tought unless it was an obvious and urgent situation , it was best to leave it approx 8 to 10 seconds just to see if the cars cleared themselves. To me it needs the clerk of the course in the middle to then be able to use thier experience.
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