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 Fuel cell update

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Beefy

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Number of posts : 2004
Registration date : 2007-05-31

PostSubject: Fuel cell update   Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:33 pm

For anybody who might be interested, here is the current situation.

A prototype fuel cell and casing was shown to representatives of the BSCDA and various drivers at the Euro meeting at NIR. Various suggestions were made as to how it could be improved and were taken on board. Following this input, the design and sizes were finalised and costings were worked out. All that was needed was for Premier Fuel Systems to be approved as a fuel tank supplier and I would be able to offer them for sale.

I heard nothing from the BSCDA.

Following Theo's nasty fire at Venray I approached the BSCDA again on the 19th August to ask if Premier were any closer to being approved as a manufacturer. I was advised it was in the hands of the BMB and I was advised not to do anything until the investigation into Theo's fire had been finalised. (I had been told the cause of Theo's fire, and had it confirmed by the BSCDA representative I was in touch with, and it was pretty clear cut how and why it happened but that is not for me to go into here.)

I chased up again on the 11th September and was told discussions were still ongoing and there would be a BMB meeting the week after the F1 WF.

It's now the 14th of October and I have heard nothing so can only assume approval has still not been granted.

If Premier were just asking to be approved as a tank manufacturer would they have had the approval already? I'm told the delay is because they don't meet current rules but, if the casing is looked on as just a tank, how don't they meet the rules? It will be either 2mm mild or stainless steel with filler, fuel outlet and breather with rollover valve on a cover plate. As a tank that would be acceptable would it not? The fact it then contains a bladder & foam doesn't come into whether or not Premier are capable tank builders?

Premier are somewhat amused that they, as a supplier to all major FIA series, Indycar, NASCAR, British Aerospace, The MoD and the R.N.L.I., can't get approval to supply a proven product that will help with a problem that clearly does exist.

If there was another fire in the meantime how would all this heel dragging appear to the HSE?

If I was asking for them to be made mandatory I could maybe understand the delay, I'm not though, I'm just wanting to offer them as an option to those drivers who want to maximise their chances of survival.

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Grafter



Number of posts : 2114
Registration date : 2007-12-07

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:56 pm

I can only applaud your efforts in trying to get these tanks tested as an option for drivers.
Do you have any images of the prototype we could see? I only ask as I started to do a quick mock up myself. A very simple cylinder with domed ends (this gets rid of the welded 90 degree corners which are the points which usually fail). Lets face it you don't see any fuel tankers on the road with a square box on the back do you?
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Beefy

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Number of posts : 2004
Registration date : 2007-05-31

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:18 pm

This was the prototype one. The production unit will have the filler, fuel outlet and breather all on one cover plate, which will make the casing torsionally stronger.


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Grafter



Number of posts : 2114
Registration date : 2007-12-07

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:19 pm

Thanks. I would still like to see a domed cylinder myself as this would be akin to the most demaning pressure vessels (gas cylinders/fire extinguishers/compressor tanks ect). Just have a look at the specification of the fuel tanks used in banger racing and you can soon see the main differences http://m.bangerkit.com/PRODUCTS-SALES.html
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sausage



Number of posts : 2526
Age : 46
Localisation : Little-Lever.South East Bolton..
Registration date : 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:45 pm

F.F.S...all there gonna do Beefy is let you do all the running, let the leading company in this field supply the Blueprint, then appoint an ex-driver/mate to be the supplier lol..
Best example of this was the shockers caper when Mark Gilbanks dad came from nowhere to lambast the new for this season shocks (the non tamperproof ones).. Who ??!!. Yeah Gilbanks old man, I'd never heard a peep from him before either ??.
Umpteen pages of rage later on stoxnet, someone 'outed' him as the main supplier of the outgoing tamper/who's got the most cash to throw at it shocks.. Brilliant...lol..
As if there gonna give a contract to the world leader (outside company) When 'ol'. Fred, Frank, Pete, Bert or Ray can knock em out from his workshop/brother in laws farm and earn any profits to be had..
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Beefy

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Number of posts : 2004
Registration date : 2007-05-31

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:10 pm

In this instance Sausage, it's not something that can easily be copied. You would need to know where to source the correct fabric, know how and where to get it treated, have a nitrogen atmosphere autoclave to cure it in and then fill it with the correct foam.

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sausage



Number of posts : 2526
Age : 46
Localisation : Little-Lever.South East Bolton..
Registration date : 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:30 pm

Well. Believe it or not I have some experience in these matters lol.
Upon leaving school I got a job at Bolton plastic components on Lever Street!. And it didn't take long before promotion came my way.
Me and a bloke named Joe were responsible for running the well dangerous machine/room that put the lining in them plastic red fuel tanks you see folk carrying when making there way to the petrol station after there cars
Ran outa motion lotion, or for use with a stilhy .. We were only one of 2 places in Britain I was told at that time, with a license to use this gas, chemical whatever it was? (Long time ago now(1990??) .. so there!!..
Therefore, if any would be fuel tank/cell provider wants to throw his hat in the ring? And needs someone as a director, just drop me a pm.
Don't laugh, I probably have more experience than matey who's gonna get the gig.
Frightening..
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sausage



Number of posts : 2526
Age : 46
Localisation : Little-Lever.South East Bolton..
Registration date : 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:39 am

When I say 'get the gig'. I mean, they will take your/premiers prototype put it out for tender and appoint matey as the go between, money to be made here, boys n girls..
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J4LMP

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Localisation : brink of a meltdown...
Registration date : 2008-04-10

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:27 pm

sausage wrote:
Well. Believe it or not I have some experience in these matters lol.
Upon leaving school I got a job at Bolton plastic components on Lever Street!. And it didn't take long before promotion came my way.
Me and a bloke named Joe were responsible for running the well dangerous machine/room that put the lining in them plastic red fuel tanks you see folk carrying when making there way to the petrol station after there cars
Ran outa motion lotion, or for use with a stilhy .. We were only one of 2 places in Britain I was told at that time, with a license to use this gas, chemical whatever it was? (Long time ago now(1990??) .. so there!!..
Therefore, if any would be fuel tank/cell provider wants to throw his hat in the ring? And needs someone as a director, just drop me a pm.
Don't laugh, I probably have more experience than matey who's gonna get the gig.
Frightening..



You know what Sausage! That explains a lot....

You in a room exposed to lot's of special gases and fumes for a long duration of time!

Yeah, explains a lot..... geek


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cain

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Registration date : 2007-07-04

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:18 pm

2mm? not thick enough.
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sausage



Number of posts : 2526
Age : 46
Localisation : Little-Lever.South East Bolton..
Registration date : 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:21 pm

2mm was the difference in thickness that  Marvin Haglers Skull was found years later to be than any other normal man irrespective of race etc. Maybe the reason he reigned for so long and never got knocked down once.  Extra thickness is a massive advantage (just ask J4lmp).
Even millimetres..
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Two Putt Shakur

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Registration date : 2007-06-20

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:16 am

Some would suggest that safety issues such as this are not taken seriously enough as some e believe an agenda is on the cards with an outcome.

Not from Beefy, oh no, but the organizers of this sport who have been mentioned.

You could throw actual safety facts with the material specified with clear dialogue and nobody in power would dare make a plan of action with a clear safety solution.

Wouldn't Theo's fire not make any motor racing organization sit up and take note with immediate effect. These F1's are not tin pot racing where safety regulations should be snuffed, but the simple fact in Beefy's post on no further news suggests not a lot is progressing.

In the meantime the potential risk still remains with a fuel cell and other components and we've seen this all too often with tyres and shocks also.

Don't waste you're time Beefy sorting this lot's issues. Far more important things to worry about than a car on fire in a race mate
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sausage



Number of posts : 2526
Age : 46
Localisation : Little-Lever.South East Bolton..
Registration date : 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Fuel cell update   Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:51 pm

Unless it's Beefy who's after being the go between between supplier and driver, for a nominal fee of course Razz ....

But if the powers that be don't give a fudge ?  Then why are we making a song and dance about it?.
You wanna see excitement don't you?  Driver sparked out sat in an inferno , hey were right back to the mid-1970's here, other drivers running down the track as fast as there legs will go then diving in head first into a fire  to save someones life,  or  instead of 212 exiting his car ablaze in front of 8000? Spectators on world final night,  nah! Let older brother drive the wrong way round the skegness track into oncoming traffic while he then taxis you another half lap in reverse to the centre green , all the while A1nos tries to scale the fence to come to the rescue...... Action all the way !!!...
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